Titan migration

[32209]

I am, mostly, but not completely, certain that I uploaded about 9 hours worth of stuff to my website yesterday evening. The "stuff" was supposed to publish to my website every 1-3 minutes during the past 9 hours.

I made a support ticket, yesterday, that turned out to be associated with the oldtitan/newtitan migration(?).

It is possible I forgot to upload the aforementioned, stuff, and am remembering incorrectly. However, that does not quite make sense to me because, after I uploaded the aforementioned stuff, I was awake for, roughly, another 5.5 hours; I am pretty certain the aforementioned "stuff" had started posting to my website. I am wondering if, for the oldtitan/newtitan migration, a previous "backup" of my website was used, or something, and, thus, a good part of my website's content, especially the 9 hours worth of stuff, got left on oldtitan. My website now seems to be on newtitan; it was not last time I was working on it.

When I woke up, just now, as usual, the main page of my website, showing the last posts, just before I went to bed, was still open. I clicked "edit" on one of the posts and got a message that the post did not exist, or something. That seems to support my belief that, roughly, the last 9 hours worth of my posts were left on oldtitan server and, somehow, ended up abandoned and not processed.

I am confused about this issue. ???

note: There appears to be about a 3.5 hour difference between the last post according to my website and the last post according to a social networking website where the posts were published simultaneously with the post to my website. To me this seems to support my supposition that, somehow, some of my "content" was lost during the oldtitan/newtitan(titan) migration.

note: Some of my website data/content was DEFINITELY lost, I think, during the server migration oldtitan/newtitan(titan). I now see things that I know I had updated/changed; they appear the way they did BEFORE I updated/changed them. Even content that I had removed is present, again. I think some type of "backup" of my website files must have been used to install it on newtitan(titan). This is more than a little frustrating and distressing, especially since I had changed some content that I no longer wanted visitors to my website to see in the old form.

note: I also can not seem to get the backup(s) I just made, twice, to appear, for FTP download, in FileZilla. I have restarted FileZilla, at least twice, between attempts to FTP download my most recent backup.

Edited March 6, 2010 by 32209

[Brian]

Sounds like something you'd be best off handling via ticket -- please either re-open the old ticket and reference this post, or submit a new one referencing it. We'll have it pushed off to our sysadmins immediately and it'll be looked into right away.

[32209]

Tony,

This is not, necessarily, an outage. It appears that a rather large amount of my website's content/data was, essentially, deleted(excised, abandoned) when the transfer was made to the new server.

Migrating the account again is not what I want to do because I spent a lot of time, all over again, trying to fix what, it appears, you guys left behind, or lost, during the transfer.

Tony, very recently, I must say that, overall, I am more than a little disappointed after experiencing more than one issue. The previous issue was one thing. Now this issue has resulted in my website being somewhat "crippled". In my opinion it sounds like I am being told, "So what, we lost a lot of your content. Tough." I am not quite able to escape the conclusion that what has transpired is not fair to me, as a customer.

You guys did not even try, it appears to me, to notify Hawkhost customers, like me, on the servers being migrated, of the ramifications of the migration. To me, in an instance like this, where, according to what you have indicated, data loss is likely it should not be the customer's responsibility to "figure out' the potential consequences. It also should not be the customer's responsibility, in my opinion, to go "digging" through the Hawkhost forums, in an instance like this. You guys should have, at the least, sent a mass email to the affected customers, in my opinion, explaining the ramifications and what customers could, or should, do to avoid data loss and other consequences.

Again, Tony, these issues have, for me, resulted in a big, proverbial, mess, lately, and wasted a lot of my time.

** ***I also can not seem to get the backup(s) I just made, twice, to appear, for FTP download, in FileZilla. I have restarted FileZilla, at least 3 times, between attempts to FTP download my most recent backup. Maybe I am missing something, but, considering the problems I have had, lately, with website(s) I have hosted by Hawkhost, I assume I am not missing something and this FileZilla FTP issue is related, probably, to Titan server migration.** ***

[32209]

** ***I also can not seem to get the backup(s) I recently made, three times, to appear, for FTP download, in FileZilla. I have restarted FileZilla, at least 4 times, between attempts to FTP download my most recent backup. Maybe I am missing something, but, considering the problems I have had, lately, with website(s) I have hosted by Hawkhost, I assume I am not missing something and this FileZilla FTP issue is related, probably, to Titan server migration.** ***

Tony, I said nothing about not wanting outages in my last reply. In fact, I said something like, "This is not, necessarily, an outage". Tony I get more than a little frustrated when you read something in to what I have said that I DID NOT SAY.

Tony said >> We tried emailing users in the past we had complaints about it as they considered it spam not something they wanted to know.

I said >> Not this user. You have not given me the chance. Give users the ability to opt-in or opt-out of certain emails from Hawkhost, then. If users feel they do not want to know then they can, either, not opt-in or opt-out.

Tony said >> ...I'm sure majority would say this is unacceptable don't ever migrate.

I said >> So often, Tony, you seem, in my opinion, to misunderstand what I am saying, or something. I said nothing about "don't ever migrate".

A big part of this particular issue, Tony, is Hawkhost lost a lot of my website's content / data. In my opinion you are, rather flippantly, saying "So what, we lost a lot of your content. Tough." Further, you seem, clearly, to be trying to say that "data lost" is very likely during migration.

Now here is a good part of why I am, now, very disappointed in Hawkhost: All Hawkhost had to do, it seems to me, was send me an email stating that I might lose data during the upcoming server migration; so, "BACKUP your website BEFORE the migration begins and do not make changes to it during the migration period or keep a backup of changes you make during the backup period so that, if the migration causes you to lose data, you can easily restore what was lost.

Tony, you guys are the "experts". You are supposed to know your system(s). If, as you have emphasized, you know that my website will lose data if I am making changes to it near, or during, the migration period ALL YOU HAD(have) TO DO WAS(is) tell me so. You did not tell me, a customer, I would lose data under the aforementioned circumstances; so, you did not even extend me the courtesy of doing something, as outlined in the previous paragraph, to protect myself and prevent data loss.

Tony said >> This is because we had a lot of users running very DYNAMIC SITES with large databases making it far more difficult to get it all migrated across before things come out of sync for the users already migrated.

I said >> Honestly, Tony, what does that really have to do with. In my opinion, unless Hawkhost prohibits users from running very DYNAMIC sites, whatever that means, then, to me, it is clear that it is Hawkhost's responsibility to migrate servers, or whatever, WITHOUT screwing up your(Hawkhost's) users' websites. Again, from what you have said it sounds like users would not, potentially, lose any data IF they refrained from making changes during the entirety of the migration period. So, all Hawkhost had to do was tell me that so I could protect myself. Hawkhost did not tell me that. I am very disappointed with Hawkhost regarding this issue.

Tony said >> ...first time we've had any data sync issues when doing it.

Website owner and Hawkhost user says >> You screwed up my website and lost, apparently, 9 hours worth of my work. So what if this was your first time. Your first time trashed my website. note: Again, everything I have said, regarding this issue, about informing customers like me, in advance, preferably via email, about the ramifications of the migration and what to do to avoid data loss applies here. If Hawkhost had told me, before beginning the migration, that data loss would occur, then, OBVIOUSLY, I would have done certain things to avoid data loss.

[32209]

Tony said >> Any user who had any sync issues we offered to migrate their data again.

I said >> Of course I declined. You guys did not tell me anything about being able to migrate the data again until, what, 15 hours after the data loss. By the time you guys said anything about migrating the data again I had already starting making changes to my website in an attempt to fix what, although I was not able to CONFIRM this for some time, Hawkhost messed up.

Again, Hawkhost should have told me of the ramifications of the migration BEFORE it began. If Hawkhost had done that I could, it appears, have taken steps to avoid data loss. NONETHELESS, it would have made sense to migrate the data again IF Hawkhost had notified me, probably by email, BEFORE I started making changes to my website in an effort to restore a jigsaw puzzle of data that Hawkhost excised or abandoned during the migration. The time to offer to migrate my data again would have been BEFORE I started trying to replace that data on my own. However, there was no email in my inbox, when I woke up, from Hawkhost, saying "Check your website before you make any changes to it. If you have lost data contact Hawkhost immediately". Even after I made a forum post and, particularly, a support ticket it took Hawkhost, you guys, a long time before you(Hawkhost) said anything about migrating the data again. If Hawkhost(you guys) knew there had been data lost, out of sync, whatever, you should have notified users immediately so they actually understood what the issue was, that it was Hawkhost's fault, and that migrating again would fix it. So, offering to migrate the data again, long after I have already begun trying to add the data again myself, sounds, in this instance, like a pretty bad idea to me.

Who knows what would happen if Hawkhost were to migrate my data again. Who knows what would be lost next and what, in my opinion, excuse I would get. Tony, as I indicated, it was something like 9 hours later before I realized that Hawkhost had lost my website data. I even went to bed, eventually. When I woke up the automated "stuff" that I had added to my website about 9 hours before was not present. Then, as I tried to figure out what in the world was going on, it became very clear that more of the changes I had made had, apparently, been excised or abandoned when Hawkhost migrated servers. I did not keep counting how many hours of data was missing, at that point. 9 hours before I had uploaded 12 - 16 hours worth of data that my website should still have been "posting", to itself and a social networking site, 9 hours later. That upload data appeared to be, entirely, missing.

Tony said >> We've done the best we can do in this situation.

I said >> If you are saying that is your best, then, maybe I should be concerned. Again, I can not escape the conclusion that the best, easiest, thing to do would have been to, as I have repeatedly explained in this support ticket and the forum thread, simply tell users BEFORE the migration that data would be lost. That way users could actually take steps to protect themselves by doing something as SIMPLE as not making ANY changes to their website(s) during the migration period. Even after you guys, it seems, knew that data was lost you(Hawkhost) still failed to notify users that they may have lost data, as I said before.

Tony said >> This small issue is far better than the potential issues we'd have if we had this old titan server fail and having to use backups that could be up to 24 hours old.

I said >> Tony you are putting "words in my mouth again", or something. I SAID NOTHING ABOUT NOT MIGRATING and you keep, apparently, trying to insist I did. AGAIN, Hawkhost users, like me, would, probably, have lost no data whatsoever if Hawkhost(you guys) had, SIMPLY, notified us as to the ramifications of making site changes during the migration. Hawkhost did not do that; so, Hawkhost user(s), like me, lost data.

Honestly, Tony, just this incident is starting to make me think, my opinion, that Hawkhost(you guys) do not take customers like me seriously at all. To me, I am starting to feel that, by your actions and the way this issue occurred you(Hawkhost) are saying "Your website is not important to us(Hawkhost); so, you should not be upset if we lost your data." That is really how I am starting to feel, Tony.

You(Hawkhost) guys, apparently, know, very well, that migrations lose data created while the migrations are in progress, yet, you did not tell your users that. Even after, it seems, you(Hawkhost) guys knew that data was lost, out of sync or whatever, you did not IMMEDIATELY inform users that you guys could migrate their websites, again, BEFORE, those users tried to fix things themselves. Again, it was, maybe, 15 hours before you guys said anything about migrating again.

Tony said >> ...having to use backups that could be up to 24 hours old

And remember, Tony, I am the same person that was trying, DESPERATELY, to make and download my own backups, months ago, via the cPanel backup wizard. I ran into INCOMPLETE backup problem(s) that had nothing to do with my side of things and you(Tony), as I recall, accused me of not needing to do the backup and trying to test the system.

What you accused me of, Tony, with regard to that backup issue, bore no relation to the truth. If the Hawkhost backup wizard I was using, and still use, functioned properly I would not need to worry about, potentially, using 24 hour backups because I would have an appropriate backup on my harddrive.

Months ago, when I tried to have you guys(Hawkhost) restore my website from the backup that was, BOTH, still in the home directory of my website files and downloaded onto my harddrive you guys(Hawkhost) said that the backup, in both places, was incomplete or corrupted, or something.

So, there you have it, tony. A big reason why I try to make, and download, my own backups is so that I won't need to rely on what you guys(Hawkhost) claim to have as far as R1soft backups, or whatever. You guys(Hawkhost) have given me, in my opinion, all manner of unreasonable excuses with regard to this migration data loss issue. To me, my fear would be getting the same manner of excuses when I tried to have you guys restore using R1soft backups. That is why I have tried to take responsibility for my own backups by using Hawkhost's cPanel backup wizard. When Hawkhost's cPanel backup wizard did not work, apparently, you(Tony) thought it strange enough that I was using it at all to accuse me of testing the system and not needing to use the backup wizard.

Incidentally, Tony this particular website of mine is miniscule(very small) at the moment. That is another reason it is starting to feel, in my opinion, like, basically, you guys(Hawkhost) do not consider users like me important. I mean, this has been a mess and has wasted a huge amount of my time despite the fact that a, comparatively, tiny website is involved. It scares me to think of how much worse this would be for a medium sized or big website hosted with Hawkhost that encountered the same issue.

[Tony]

I'm closing this thread because this makes no sense. I'm not sure why you're posting your ticket replies to our forum.

The Titan migration was necessary a small minority of users had some data sync issues. We've migrated lots of other servers never had the issue come up. The users who contacted us had the data re-migrated and the issue was solved. You declined this offer since you already started doing this yourself. You made the ticket and had a response offering a re-migration 30 minutes later.